Cigarette Card Collecting Discussions => General Cigarette Card Collecting Discussion => Topic started by: jeromebelasco on May 15, 2018, 01:04:00 PM

Title: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: jeromebelasco on May 15, 2018, 01:04:00 PM
maybe this has been answered before but which card is the rarest numbered guinea gold? #765 or one of the numerous varieties. has anyone compiled a 'population report' of how many of the rarest cards exist. all you gg collectors must compare your cards!! how about a 'top ten' list?
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: Ogdenscards on May 15, 2018, 07:31:15 PM
765 is rare but certainly not the rarest, at least 7 are known and likely more, I have about 100 Ogden's cards many are Guinea Golds that are to date unique, i.e. I have the only one known.

Hettie Morris, Base M, the rarest, I would say at this moment but tomorrow ten could be found. Nellie Wright same base type only 3 or 4 known. There are new finds that are rare, not been recorded in 120 years nearly.

I have all the recognised rare cards but am still missing 59 of the numbered cards, but not images, missing cards are the base type variations. I could therefore argue that those 59 cards are rarest in the numbered series, they are certainly difficult to find as I have been looking for many years.

We are not sure of any intentional rare cards the rare cards such as the 765 we assume to be accidental, perhaps the 765 cards were damaged we do not know. Why are there cards still being found today, the reason for this is we look for the cards listed, in other words we identify the cards we want and look for them not realising we over look unrecorded cards.

There are two base D cards actresses, Miss C. Brown and Rosie Martyn, been looking for these two cards for twenty years and still not seen them, however I do have a photocopy of both.

There are many others that so far are elusive to me, so to me rare.
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: Ogdenscards on May 15, 2018, 07:49:43 PM
Have considered identifying the rare cards in my writings but wonder if this is a wise strategy. I question what the dealers will do, will they react and start charging premium prices, will the pleasure of finding a rare card for a bargain price or just a percentage of the appropriate catalogue. My personal opinion is to identify them but can understand the argument against listing them.

In Murrays set numbers can some time give an indication of premium cards as well as he rare cards. The catalogue states 49/50 or 195/200, this means that one or the balance of cards is not at the single card rate.

You do also notice on occasions that the total set value is greater than the single card value multiplied by the rate.

Premium cards is nothing to do with rarity but desirability, just a greater demand for that golfing card for example.
Rarity is that not many cards known the supply is very limited.
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: jeromebelasco on May 15, 2018, 08:22:30 PM
Rare, scarce or neither?
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: Jediknight on May 16, 2018, 10:46:13 AM
@ David

Where do the alternate set of cards numbered 1-200 (Set 330S Set II in the Ogden's red book) fit in the rarity scale?

There's an advertisement showing the list of 200 subjects in the red book but how many of those have actually been seen in the flesh? How many of the 200 do you have in your collection? 
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: Ogdenscards on May 16, 2018, 02:49:50 PM
Extremely rare, they were only issued for about three weeks, canceled because of the death of Queen Victoria. I have only about 20 different ones and some of them are unique. The numbers that have been seen are listed but since publication about 10 more have been found.

The picture of card no 4 is also along way from being common, I only have one not seen another and could do with an up grade, would class this variation as scarce to very scarce. Had a visitor yesterday buying some Guinea Golds and he wanted just this card, so was talking about this very version, its D2 if my memory serves me correct.

These are the categories I have used in my writings:-

Extremly Rare - almost unique
Rare - only a handful known
Very Scarce -
Very Difficult
Very common
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: GuineaGoldjr on May 16, 2018, 06:46:29 PM
Has there ever been an explanation as to why some of the base variation cards in the numbered series feature different images?
For instance card number 4 pictured above portrays her wearing a white dress while other base variations show a black dress.
Did Ogdens actually send the image to the printer that they wanted on the card or did they just inform them of the required card subject and the printers themselves chose the image?
Title: Re: Rarest numbered Guinea Gold....
Post by: Ogdenscards on May 17, 2018, 07:18:57 AM
The answer is not known but we do know that the photographers owned the photos who were likely in some sort of arrangement with the printers, in this case Rotary Photo company or at least its parent German company. They had the idea and process of mass production of photographic images, they invented the process.

The images we see are often seen among more than one company so unlikely owned by the company of Ogdens.

We know the company of Tillotsons of Bolton printed all the TAB cards, they also printed for Gallahers, which could explain the similarity of size of card.

My speculative answer is just a print run difference at the time, card manufacture and production was still in the hands of the specialist. The subject matter was probably chosen by the company of Ogden's but the image placement the printers. Was it a mistake? Was it an up dated photograph? Was it a new process being demonstrated? The speculation will go on.