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Author Topic: views and opinions required ?  (Read 7076 times)

fossil

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views and opinions required ?
« on: October 18, 2012, 09:04:08 PM »
i may sound rather cynical in this, and i would loike to hear of other members views upon this subject.
having collected cards for around ten years or so now, i seem to be rather ill informed about the wider world of card collecting.
it is only since the beginning of this year, that i came across this very useful website, and very useful and informative indeed for finding out or sharing information about card collecting.
even though maybe not contributing every day, i do however, view the pages twice a day, morning, and evening.
what i find rather frustrating, is that, seemingly new members, have managed to find this website, yet have  no knowledge of card collecting.
it sems very often, a new member, with no knowledge or even interest in the hobby, will every now and again, find in their attics, cards that belonged to their grandparents, and that they are totally innocent, and just curious as to what shall they do to them, or any idea as to what they may be worth ?
this is where i feel rather cynical about it, as i seem to read between the lines.
this is what i seem to read !
i have a bunch of old cards that i don't want, are there any of you that want to buy them.
even though i don't know the value, because their about eighty years old, they must be worth a few tens of quid, but i'll act innocent , as though there worth only a few pence each, some of you long time collectors will inundate me with queries about them, and leap frogging over each other, trying to buy them from me.
these new members never seem to come back to this forum, nor do they contribute anything of any value.
i would prefer that if someone who has no interest in card collecting, at least be truthful, to let the members of this forum know that they have no interest, list them, and ask if any member would like to purchase them, rather than feign an interest, and not have any desire rather than making money from a sale

baystokie

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2012, 10:38:44 PM »
I don't really mind who posts on here or about what they are posting. If I find it banal or boring I move on. This is after all a Forum and as such will be visited by 'the good, the bad - and the ugly'! One thing I hope this site does NOT become is an academic offshoot of the CSGB - such interest is perfectly valid as is a visit from some youngster who may have truthfully been given some cards and wants some grown-up advice on how to proceed (at least he/she should get some good practical; responses from this Forum's residents (and where else could such an enquirer go?)). I don't wish to discourage anyone starting to collect and if it means that there are periodic outburst of posts from 'undesirables', then it's a fair price to pay.

As with my TV - if it irritates me, I switch off (or in this case, consign the post to the dustbin of memory)

fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2012, 11:29:54 PM »
you raise some interesting points baystoke.
there have been a few collectors that state, that they have no interest in the cards they have, they have listed them, and enquired as to if there are anyone interested in purchasing them.
it is that some seem to pretend they are curious , and put out tentative feelers, in the hope that there are collectors wishing to snap them up.
i may be wrong, they may not be like that, it is just how i perceive the way they enquire about the cards that their so called grandparents have left in the attic.
it always seems as if it is grandparents and attics from them

ozron

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 10:00:46 AM »
I take those posts with a grain of salt. At least tney are someone posting. Ths site can be very quiet and maybe we all need to try to generate threads that will attract replies and exchanges.

I recently acquired the 2012 LCCC catalogues and a quick chceck of some prices against the 2005 edition shows no movement. The cards are valued at the same level.

Anyone else notice this? Are cigarette cards losing value in real terms?


ridgeback

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 10:10:37 AM »
I know what you mean Fossil,but it really does not bother me.

I genuinely found a rather amazing collection of cards in Mum in Laws house so it does happen,if they didnt interest me historically,and I had not been bitten by the bug I would probably have asked what they were worth somewhere like this.

I also think that non-collectors think they are worth a lot more than they are,I certainly did,however after a year and a half of collecting I find myself getting far pickier,and a lot meaner when it comes to what I want to pay  ;)

Im also surprised at how few collectors with years of experience are on here, and Im very grateful that those that are share their knowledge with us all,Ive certainly learnt quite a bit that I didnt know.

As far as Baystokes point about collectors,I was amazed to find that one of the regular ebayers of cards down here is not a collector at all,the cards are simply brought and sold to give them something to do !

I couldnt do that....I would want to keep all the good ones, and up to a year ago I would have wanted to keep them all  ;)



magpiemick

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 04:05:39 PM »
I generally visit the site about daily , i enjoy reading articles even if i have no knowledge of that paticular subject it can improve my own knowledge of card collecting On the other side if it is something i can help out a fellow member with then i,m more than pleased to do so Overall i find all the regular contributors a good bunch and the more forum activity between them can just be for the good and benefit of the site as it shows it promotes intrest in the hobby  As it is a forum and open to anyone then you have got to take what comes , some are more forward and some a bit more reserved As Mr Gump says its like a box of choclates you just dont know what  your going to get

fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 07:21:55 PM »
it's great to hear of all your views about this topic.
by what i gather, most do not seem too bothered about members joining this forum, with the intention, or hope that someone may purchase their cards, in which they have no interest in.

one other point i was going to raise, was what ozron mentioned,
of over 180 members, seventy eight have made no contribution to discussions.
i do believe that there should be more input from other members, why join if no discussions ?
after all, there is no need to join to become a member, as this forum can be viewed by anyone that comes across this website.
i would have thought the idea, was to take part in discussions by joining.

also ridgeback, mentions that he his surprised that few collectors with years of experiance.
i have always thought it the other way round, and that most that seem to contribute, seem to have more years of experiance than i.
probably we could make a survey, as to how long each member to this website, have been collecting cards ?

whilst on here, one other comment i would like to make, that ozron mentions, is the prices in the LCCC catalogue, not having moved up in price.
i tended to notice that on most occassions with the cards i collect on my theme, both murrays and the LCCC, were around the same price (did they sometimes collaborate ?)
there were a few examples where prices did vary, such as the liam devlin 'irish fishing'
in latter murrays cards, when they finally had no full sets in stock, single cards were selling at £2. 35, whist at the moment, the LCCC, in their monthly special offers, are selling a full set at £24

IanSammel

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 07:46:08 PM »
i do believe that there should be more input from other members, why join if no discussions ?
I believe that very often people are just looking for an answer to a single question such as "how much is this set of cards that I just found in the attic worth?".  Once they have that, they have no further interest in cards.  I must own up to being guilty in that respect myself.  For example another interest of mine is restoring old radios.  Once I had a problem with an old German radio where I just couldn't unsolder some of the components.  I made a post to a German forum and discovered that especially just after the war it was common to use to use all sorts of things as solder where nothing else was available.  They needed high temperatures to melt.  I tried that and that solved the problem.  I needed no further information and my knowledge of German radios was so limited that I couldn't contribute anything meaningful to the forum myself.  Whilst I have a bad conscience about it, I never made any more posts.
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fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
well ian, besides studying the natural sciences, one of my other lifetime studies, has been military history, and what you described, i found of great intrest.
in post war germany, one does not consider, that due to lack of many resources, especially metals, with the german pre and inter-war advances in sciences and technologies, that they could be so resourceful, in using substitute metals for soldering.
you contributed to a website, and in your eyes, have felt a pang of guilt by not contributing any further, have in fact pased on something that i found very interesting.
this is why we should be able to get half of the members to this forum contribute a discussion.
they must all have a story, an interest or something to contribute.
at least the members that join in the hope of just selling their cards, have contributed to towards this site.
hopefully, members that collect, yet not contributed shalput in a discussion or two.
as magpiemick says, he logs on to this website every day, as i do, yet many days are deafening by the silence
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 02:39:10 PM by IanSammel »

IanSammel

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 07:47:55 PM »

in post war germany, one does not consider, that due to lack of many resources, especially metals, with the german pre and inter-war advances in sciences and technologies, that they could be so resourceful, in using substitute metals for soldering.

In Germany they say "Not macht erfinderisch".  There's probably an English equivalent if only I could think of it.*  Whatever it is, the postwar situation drove the Germans to find all sorts innovative of ways around their immediate difficulties.  For example due to lack of petrol, a lot of cars were converted to run on wood gas generators, a sort of wooden version of producer gas.  However that has nothing to do with cigarette cards, so let me try to get the thread back on topic.

The 1930s were the golden age of cigarette cards in Germany.  During the war, they were banned to save on raw materials.  One of the largest issuers of cards was the Reemtsma company which is still around today.  They issued vouchers which could be exchanged for packets of cards which made it possible to issue cards which were larger than the cigarette packets without either folding them or issuing them in a mosaic form.  Although cards were banned after 1942, there are many Reemtsma packets around dated March 1945.  I have several in my collection dated up to 1947.  The general issue of cigarette cards in Germany didn't get underway again until the early 1950s.  That means there are several questions which as far as I know don't have definitive answers. 

Firstly, did Reemtsma around 6 weeks before the end of WW2 realise which way things were going and restart producing cards despite the Nazi ban, with the intention of continuing to issue them when the war was over?  Secondly, if they did then why did they stop after 1947?  Admittedly sets such as Raubstaat England might not have been popular with the occupying forces but e.g. Baroque Art with its portrayals of fat ladies with large thingies should have been an immediate hit.  The Reemtsma company itself doesn't seem to know the answer.

*Google just told me it's "necessity is the mother of invention".
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 07:49:52 PM by IanSammel »
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fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 10:52:42 PM »
i have only one set of german cigarette cards, whiv=ch are of birds, most of my other german cards, were issued with margarine, and are liebig size
many other german cards i have seen , are mostly of german peoples, and military, so probably more propoganda.
wern't the cards you mention, owned by imperial tobacco ?
i am sure the german peoples , before the end of naziism, were sure that sooner or later, the war would end, and by march , the allied armys were well into german territories, so that production of cigarettes may have been planned well before the war ended.
german products mat well not have gone down well in britain after the war, but amongst fighting troops, cigarettes and chocolates was a great currency amongst military.
my father often told me of exchanges between german and italians when captured, and would often barter his cigarettes for items in exchange.
in fact they would initiate the transaction first, asking for cigarettes, in exchange for such items as medals, insignia, and other items.
so it is possible that when parts of occupied parts of west germany would start production before the war ended.
my father often mentioned the distinctive taste of german tobacco, but when you are a soldier fighting, a few minutes on a 'fag', was a short moment of relaxation.
in the natural history museum, i too have been puzzzled by the various german journals.
we have full runs of german journals, even ones produced by german scientific societies during the war.
no iterchange of journals were made during the war, but the german scientific societies kept journals aside, and new that the war would end one day, and after the war, mostly arounfd 1952, the museum obtained all the back isses unavailable during war years.
when journals are received in the museum, they are date stamped as to when they were received, and 1952, seems to be the year in which we received most of the journals, which probably explains the fact that the germans tobacco companies were manufacturing cigarette and packets, in preparation for the end of the war, in which they new was not that far off

IanSammel

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 09:32:56 AM »

i have only one set of german cigarette cards, whiv=ch are of birds, most of my other german cards, were issued with margarine, and are liebig size

Maybe you have the Aurelia set.  This was a pre-war set which was reissued after the war in E. Germany.

many other german cards i have seen , are mostly of german peoples, and military, so probably more propoganda.
wern't the cards you mention, owned by imperial tobacco ?

I'm not sure that propaganda is the right term although I've often heard it used.  The cigarette companies weren't forced to issue any particular subjects.  The same argument would apply to say "Allied Army Leaders" or "Modern War Weapons". 

Reemtsma was an independent company until about 10 years ago when Imperial took it over.  In the 1930s it controlled a large part of the German tobacco industry.  The company issued vast numbers of cards but curiously you will find almost no reference to them in the official company history.  Maybe Reemtsma wants to distance itself from sets such as "Deutschland Erwacht", "Adolf Hitler" and "Raubstaat England".  As the cards wêre officially issued by a "Bilderdienst" and didn't bear the Reemtsma name it is not immediately obvious that they are Reemtsma products if you don't know.

my father often mentioned the distinctive taste of german tobacco,

German cigarettes were ususlly Turkish tobacco as opposed to Virginia tobacco.
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fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 09:37:47 PM »
i didn't mean propoganda as such, more that as much as the british and empire cigarette cards, depicted scenes of british valour, uniforms, regiments and other militaria, the german cards would depict the military might that they fought they should deserve for themselves.
probably that was the wrong word to use.

the set of bird cards i have, is titled, 'AUS DEUTSCHLANDS VOGELWELT', and issued by reemtsma cigarettenfabriken.
it is a 200  card set.
no idea of the date that they were issued, so would be grateful if you knew !

ozron

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 10:11:36 PM »
Ian, Fossil.....now THAT exchange was fascinating.

Okay, I have absolutely NO interest in collecting German cards, cigarette or otherwise, but your "conversation" told me a great deal, including that there is a world of knowledge beyond my ken in this hobby of cartophily.

fossil

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Re: views and opinions required ?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 10:59:49 PM »
well ozron, that is one of the reasons that this forum must encourage many of the members to contribute here.
78 have made no contribution, and there must be many more fascinating views and ideas from non-contributers

ps. please excuse my spelling mistakes, i often type fast, and make errors, such as 'new' instead of 'knew', 'fought' instead of 'thought', and 'magicmick' instead of 'magpiemick'

 

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