July 16, 2018, 12:19:18 AM



Click here if you
need magnetic signs for vans


Or here if you
need a
Corporate Video Production Company or
video producers in Milton Keynes


Geoff Fowler - Artist

Privacy Policy

Author Topic: football related cards and support for football teams  (Read 5770 times)

fossil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • natural history, scienced, museum studies
football related cards and support for football teams
« on: April 12, 2013, 08:25:24 AM »
o.k., you football guys that support football teams, can any of you give me any answers ?
i am not a football fan, and do not support any football team, so my knowledge upon the subject, is very limited.
football , to me, seems a multi million pound business, and todays football teams, seem full of the top international footballers from all over the world.

football related cards, seems very popular amongst card collectors, and it seems as if many hundreds of sets have been issued.
cards issued seem to either relate to one footballer, or to a team, in general.
many of the old sets of cards, such as issued by ardath, show very nostalgic photos, of teams i have never heard of before, such as Aberdeen City Police Club,  Kenilworth Early Closers Club, I.C.I. (Alkali) Football Club, and New Biggin West End Football Club.to name just a few.
it seems to me, not knowing about football, that in the early days, football consisted of a group of members from a localised area, and play with another football team from another localised area.
each football team, would all have localised talent, and may have had special skills.
a football team from the south, would play another team from the north, and their would be supporters from both areas cheering on their team.
it seemed an age of innocence.
todays football teams, take newcastle or arsenal, may be full of international members, from south america, europe, africa, and may not even contain a member that was born and bred in newcastle, or wherever the team is based ?
i can see a hypothetical situation at a later date, when one year, the arsenal team, full of international stars, play newcastle , again full of international stars, the folloowing year, arsenal and newcastle, each sell their members, and in the hypothetical situation, newcastle will buy all the arsenal members, and arsenal will buy all the newcastle members.
where does the supporter support ?, would the arsenal supporter cheer his team one year, and boo newcastle, and the following year, when each football club has sold their members, then find the supporter cheering the arsenal members and booing newcastle, when the previous year , may have been cheering the team he was booing ?.
i would like any of the football members that follow the game, be able to enlighten me on this.
another question i would like to ask, many of the old football cards, showing football teams as i have mentioned, are they still around ?, and as there ever beeen a definitive list of all football clubs ever issued on cigarette and trade cards

magpiemick

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • newcastle united related stuff
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 09:11:31 AM »
Fossil and i know you going to love this but mostly all Football Teams originated from working class communities in the North of England be it a works team , a church team etc and the more the sport got popular then freindlies between local teams were played till the Football Association was formed and a leauge for informative information better than i could give please see this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Football_League

Ardath did indeed do well with their photcard series of Football teams Phot Card Series A- F which featured a lot of regional amateur teams as for the nationality and make up of the teams of the present era theoretically the swapping of whole  from one to the other is never going to happen as financially impossible  and secondaly The majority support their team and colours regardles of who is in the team for instance i have supported Newcastle United with more than a few donkeys in the team at various periods As for a dfinitive list of all teams ever involved with foootball and trade card David Thompson attemted to come close by publishing a A4 type booklet which attempted to catalouge every card issued involving football Which for football card collectors is a very good and informative book to have

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:13:08 AM by magpiemick »

wolfie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 544
  • Military Silks, Military, SciFi Trade.
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 08:28:18 PM »
OK Fossil, i shall bow to MagpieMicks knowledge on football cards, it was he after all who got me interested in this subject. As to the questions about the game. Well the players dont matter to your real supporter (dont get me started on glory seekers). it is the team, the badge, the strip. A club may financialy belong to millionaires but it is the supporters who are the club and it is to these hardy souls that the club belongs to.

Most clubs started the same way many sunday teams start, a group of blokes wanted a kick around. Arsenal were originally a Army team and as a matter of interest did not get to the top division by merit but were added after WW1 by means of underhand deals that said they are the only English club to never have been relegated, so deserve their spot in the top flight.

Newcastle United were 2 teams East and West who came together to form United. most clubs histories are similar.

I have watched many teams in my time but always supported only one. Its a sad fact of life that football supporters are very singular in their support and that we never question that support.

I can still recall my first game, holding my dads hand as we came up the stairs at the old paddocks at SJP I lost my soul that day. Sold, no given away to my team willingly. As a matter of interest Mick i once had a lifesize poster of Wynn Davies on my wall thanks to a sister who went out with a printer from the evening chronicle.

fossil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • natural history, scienced, museum studies
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 08:48:05 AM »
thanks you two, for the information provided.
not being a follower of the game, i often wonder how some supporters become so passionate, that they can become violent to other supporters, as what seemed rife in the past, althogh still making the headlines every now and again.
i was interested in wolfies views about how a suppoerters mind works.
one of my son-in-laws, is an ardent football fan, so paasionate about his team, yet soon as the manager changes, or footballer changes team, he is then treated almost as an enemy ?
many years ago, i knew a guy, move down from birmingham, just to live next to his favourite team, tottenham !
i do actually live close to the arsenal stadium, and often hear the roar of the crowd on match days.
the area has certainly been transformed, from a run down to a pleasantly landscaped area, bringing much prosperity to the local area, due to multi million pound backing.
taking the underground train, one can still see the original station name of gillespie park on the ceramic tiles, that many years ago, now named as the station 'arsenal'.
long gone has the name woolwich arsenal gone, but still retains the gun on the club emblem.
magpiemick, the book you mentiondo you have a copy ?
if so, out of curiosity, how many teams have actually been covered on cigarette and trade cards ?
does it let the reader know if many of the teams, especially on the many photocards by ardath, still in exhistance ?
not being a collector of football cards, it would not be a book that i would ever likely to purchase, although still seems interesting , as it refers to cartophily.

IanSammel

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • German cards
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 12:36:57 PM »
I used to buy bubble gum cards from the local sweet shop.  I spent all my pocket money on them.  Then they got a load of footballer cards in.  My interest dried up over night.  From then on, I bought sweet cigarettes instead.
I come from somewhere long ago...
and now there's no way back
Be Bop Deluxe

fossil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • natural history, scienced, museum studies
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 01:17:05 PM »
even though not being interested in football myself, i still find it interesting when card related.
without doubt, if i manged to obtain a copy of the book, i would certainly like to keep it, as all aspects of card collecting , no matter upon which subject, i find very appealling..
i do have several sports related sets in my collection, as many sportsmen, and activities are related to themes that i collect.
all cards in some way can relate to other subject. take military, as wolfie mentioned with the origins of the arsenal team, and likewise, during the great war, there was a couple of football battalions put together, one was with the midddlesex regiment, that had its roots set in the now obsolete county of middlesex, now incorporated into greater london.
tottenham which is a london club, is in fact a part of middlesex, and the footballers had a battalion in the middlesex regiment , named, the football battalion.

magpiemick

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • newcastle united related stuff
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 03:06:18 PM »
Fossil , thats a task you have given me i will have a look to see if some of the amateur teams feautured in Ardath Photo cards are in existence today I have a copy of the half time hero book which you are welcome to borrow they were sold by Murrays i got it a few years back i dont know who took over thier book stock Regarding the football battalions i have read books on this espically When The Whistle Blows by Andrew Riddich & John Kemp  and they are very informative indeed i also have a book which is called The Greater Game by Cluve Harris & Julian Whippey a very inspiring book on sporting icons who gave their lives in the Great War including Ronald Poulter Palmer the England Rugby Captain and for me one Donald Simpson Bell a Amateur Footballer who played for Newcastle United and Bradford Park Avnue is is the only footballer to receive The Victoria Cross for actions on The Somme this was sadly awarded posthumously His medal was kept in The Green Howards Regimental Museum ( my brothers regiment ) it was then bought for £252,000 by the Football Association and is displayed in the National Museum in Manchester he also featured on a cigarette card Gallahers Victoria Cross heroes 7the Series card No 167 which i happily have  See below links re the two books and scan of Donald Simpson Bell

http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Whistle-Blows-Footballers-Battalion/dp/0857331035/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365860441&sr=1-3&keywords=football+battalions

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Greater-Game-Sporting-Icons/dp/1844157628/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 06:33:16 PM by magpiemick »

wolfie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 544
  • Military Silks, Military, SciFi Trade.
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 08:28:25 PM »
Fossil you may know this link but here it is anyway it gives a brief run down on the history of football cards in cigarettes.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Fcigarette.htm

Hope it is of some enlightenment

baystokie

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Birds, cricket, caricatures, scenery (not photos)
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 10:26:26 PM »
For what it's worth - 'The Illustrated Footballer' by Tony Ambrosen also contains a lot of info on the subject of footballers and clubs on trade and cigarette cards.

Abebooks has copies around the £4/£5 mark

fossil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • natural history, scienced, museum studies
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 10:44:54 PM »
with reference i wrote about in another article, about why their are two volumes of royal fusilier associated cards.
another of the city/county of london regiments associated with the royal fusiliers, is the 'london irish'.
during the battle of loos, 1915, due to dreadful loss of men, a N.C.O. of the london irish, kicked a football across no man's land to encourage his men to follow.
this football, is known as 'the loos football', and can still be found in the london irish regimental museum.
also another military/football tale of the great war, is of course, the christmas truce, in which a football game is played.
wolfie, a while back, posted a picture in the gallery , a card from player uniforms of the territorial army, in which shows a soldier of the border regiment, wearing the goatskin smock.
this is typical of the b ritish army durin g 1914/15, when both these military/football acts took place, before the issue of the armoured steel helmets.

would any collector know if there were any cards that show military/footbal cards, or any card the shows the christmas truce ?
i know there is a trade card given away with the queen mary's gift box given to soldiers during the christmas 1914, i did have one, but sadly sold it before collecting cards as a hobby , around ten years or so ago.

IanSammel

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • German cards
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 08:04:26 AM »
There is a card in this set:
http://www.germancards.com/MfrsB/Bermuehler/krieg.htm
which depicts Christmas 1914.  No pictures of football though.
I come from somewhere long ago...
and now there's no way back
Be Bop Deluxe

fossil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
  • natural history, scienced, museum studies
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 01:33:07 PM »
i have viewed all the various websites on books and cards, all are v ery interesting.
i have never come across the football card website before, so thought that was of great interest.
with the books, especiall y of the great war, or victorian era, that are my main interests in british military history, , so i find it very hard to stop myself purchasing such books, i really want to de-clutter rather than aquire more material.
found the article on the german card set, very interesting indeed, and would like to see the card for christmas 1914.
sometimes the artists did go a bit 'over the top' (no pun intended about the great war).
for example uniforms, mistakes with dress, equiptment , insignia etc.,
as with the 1918/19 date , this is due that although a end to hostilities 11/11/18, the peace treaty was not signed till 1919, and a couple other till 1920.
also being a 'world war', there was still action with the british army, because this was due to the russian revolution of 1917, the british being on the side of the @white' russians, so our troops were in action in silesia, which my wifes grandfather was also involved in.
there was other various small disputes elsewhere in the world besides europe, notably in the british empire, as well as our troops being in occupation in germany, where there still may have been minor squabbles, in fact as far as i can say, did the great war ever really end ?, more like a lull in hostilities, after all, if if were not to the prob lems germany had, there would not bethe rise in naziism, and to further hostilities.
personally, the great war is just about ending now, as due to the start of the 1939 war, bounderies and borders are still in dispute, especially in europe, and countries once under occupation with the super powers of the USSR, austro -hungry, greater germany, have now finally obtained their independance

IanSammel

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • German cards
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 05:16:05 PM »
found the article on the german card set, very interesting indeed, and would like to see the card for christmas 1914.
Sorry Fossil but I can't oblige at present.  Most of my collection, including that album, is presently stored in a large heap of removal boxes where unfortunately it will have to stay until the "Sammelzimmer" is complete.  According to SWMBO that will be never :(  If I come across it any time, I'll post a scan.
I come from somewhere long ago...
and now there's no way back
Be Bop Deluxe

MansfieldTerrier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
  • Looking for Huddersfield Town stuff
    • The Huddersfield Town Collection
Re: football related cards and support for football teams
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2014, 03:46:28 PM »
This could well be THE thread for me, interested as I am in football cards. Unlike many on here though, I am a one-club-man and thus my collecting is very, very narrow indeed, to the point where it becomes almost impossible to enlarge my collection!

I've got all of the easily found cards relating to Huddersfield Town, and am now missing the rarer - and more expensive! - stuff, like the medium and cabinet-sized 'Pinnace' cards, a couple of Crescent cards and 1930 Barratt Footballers. These are really hard to track down.

On another note, I see that Tony Ambrosen's book 'THE ILLUSTRATED FOOTBALLER' has been mentioned in this thread; I have this book too and although it looks great, it's a bugger to read, simply because many of the pages are in the wrong order. I reviewed it on Amazon some while ago, and here's what I wrote ...

"If, like me, you are interested in the sprawling history of football as shown on cigarette and trade cards, then you cannot afford to be without this book. However, there is a caveat ... although it is profusely illustrated with hundreds of gorgeous cards in both colour and black and white, unfortunately the text is all over the place. By this, I mean that the page numbering is fine, but the actual text is filled with non-sequitors, ie several pages are in the wrong order. For this book to make any sense at all, you need to read it in this order - 1-23, 27, 26, 25, 24, then 28! And it's the same story after the mid-point! You need to read 36-38, 41, 40, 39, 42! The remainder of the book is fine, but it is a great disappointment that such a wonderful book - and resource for the collector - should be flawed thus.
Nevertheless, now that you know 'how' to read it, you can't go wrong at some of the prices quoted for it here!"


Hopefully anyone in here who has the book will now be able to make more sense of it!

MT ;)
  

 

Who's online

31 Guests, 1 User
Brian Cricket